# Vertical alternated darker bands on 120 film with Epson V850 (staircase effect?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Flatbed and Film Scanners\ **Created:** [January 25, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795 "2025-01-25T12:46:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/1 "2025-01-25T12:46:04Z")
Hello everyone. Firstly I would like to compliment this amazing community for the support. I’ve had the problem for quite some time now and it’s getting nerve racking as it continues to invalidate the work on field of this hobby of ours. What I do is sandwiching the 120 film negative between two antireflecting museum glass so that I can batch scan three 6x7 shots (getting the boards in the process too). My Epson seems to calibrate its lens higher than the glass of the scanner so by adding half centimeter I can actually achieve decent levels of resolution. I don’t like the holder that comes with it 'cause it forces me to cut the 6x7 film, and to eliminate the borders (which I would like to keep). Somehow though this process is giving as a result this strange artifacts that are spread throughout of the negative and are more visible when there is significant negative space in the shot, like a blue sky. The holders don’t eliminate the problem either, it’s not the museum glasses I think, I’ve scanned with holders with no ANR glass and the results are the same, it seems to be the negative itself but I’m not certain. DSLR scanning seems to reduce the effect but it has it’s problems that i will discuss on the appropriate forum topic. Does anyone have encountered the same problem? Is there any solution? Can it be mended digitally? I will upload an example (image was captured in DNG HDR settings in Silverfast and converted through Lightroom with NLP). Thank you. [/grid] ![Museum glass](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/negativelabpro/original/2X/0/03f54fa31efa3e17de2617c1d095735f4e5a8e04.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/2 "2025-01-25T20:27:38Z")
Hello red\_v, welcome to the community. It’s a bit hard to tell anything very much from the whole downsized image here, could you maybe upload a representative section at 1:1 aka 100%? You’re wondering if it might be on the negative, do you have a magnifier to inspect the negative? ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/3 "2025-01-25T20:55:35Z")
Harry thank you for the welcome and for the reply. If you loo at the image, you can notice the darker stripes in the sky part of the photo that alternate in a repetitive pattern. I have a loop, but it’s quite hard noticing it although it does seem to be part of the negative (in wich case I have no clue on what caused them). Maybe the scanner just makes them noticable. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 5:19am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/4 "2025-01-26T05:19:35Z")
Sorry, I see what you mean now. Are these aligned with the direction of travel of the scanner? In any case what happens if you turn the negative through 90 degrees? ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/5 "2025-01-26T07:12:07Z")
Never thought of that 😄 , I will try! What lured me in thinking that was a scanner problem is the fact that in the prescan option in Silverfast, outside of the captured negative film frames, in the blank space where the museum glass expands, you could see the same pattern although there wasn’t any film. I will set the scanner again today and try to rotate the negative and I will get back to you. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/6 "2025-01-26T08:20:10Z")
Worth rulling out the actual negative though like you I’m suspecting it has something to do with the scanning setup. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/7 "2025-01-26T08:29:50Z")
Actually, I guess you could also scan with no negative but both sheets of museum glass in the same positions, then 1 sheet, then no sheets. ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/8 "2025-01-26T08:55:43Z")
So, I’ve done a DSLR scan through Lightroom and NLP. There is something on the negative but not so “artificial”. I don’t know if it’s the scanner that “thinks” in a certain way creating these patterns or what. I will try with the Epson now. ![_DSC7269](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/negativelabpro/original/2X/8/84fa0b98677ae22cbbb7bf46aacb48fa9a60edb1.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/9 "2025-01-26T09:17:52Z")
Harry it’s the scanner, or actually the museum glass on top of it! I did a prescan with the two sheets and no negative and I could clearly see the strips, then I removed one sheet and the strips diminished in intensity, than a clean one with no sheet of museum glass and the prescan was clean. What could be the problem? How can I find a way to scan a sheet of film without holders on the Epson? I would like to avoid fluid mount 'cause I really can’t find the appropriate materials to do so (and it’s cumbersome). Could it be an antialiasing problem? ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/10 "2025-01-26T09:41:11Z")
So, I’ve tried with the Epson fluid mount accessory and the glass (or rather the piece of plastic) that there’s inside the mount doesn’t seem to affect the scan, it’s clear. If I put a piece of museum glass on top, the damn pattern reappears ever so slightly. A solution might be trying to cut 8x10 pieces of the same material that the fluid mount holder is made of, but I have no clue what material it might be made of. I’m trying now to scan with the Epson Scan 2 and the museum glass in order to rule out the fact that it may be a Silverfast problem. Edit: Yes, I confirm the problem it’s not related with Silverfast, Epson Scan 2 produces the same pattern when using sheets of museum glass. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/11 "2025-01-26T12:29:40Z")
How thick is that museum glass? I think you said that you were using two sheets but does it happen with just one? I never knew that Epson fluid mount accessory was acrylic rather than glass. ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/12 "2025-01-26T12:43:56Z")
Three to four millimeters I think and yes, it happens even with just one sheet (although less). The Epson fluid mount accessory is most definitely not glass. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/13 "2025-01-26T13:17:31Z")
3 to 4mm sounds too thick to me, especially twice over, 2mm would seem more like it and perhaps just a single sheet with a mask on top to hold down the negative, like an enlarger. That’s if it is an interaction between the scanner and your museum glass, which it’s looking like. ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/14 "2025-01-26T13:25:43Z")
I’ve ordered two acrylic sheets on amazon, I’ll try and see if the problem is the coating or the etching in the museum glass given that with the Epson fluid mount holder it doesn’t seem to be a problem. Tomorrow I will try, if you are interested, I’ll post the results. Thank you Harry. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/15 "2025-01-26T16:50:11Z")
Sure, interesting for anyone coming across this thread now or in the future. Actually many times when issues are discussed on forums you never get to hear what the actual solution was. I suppose there must be a FB forum on the Epson Vxxx scanners, that could also be the place to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/16 "2025-01-27T17:08:10Z")
Hi everyone, this is getting like a teenager’s diary. Material doesn’t seem to have nothing to do with it. The acrylic sheets created the same problem. Probably it has to do with width as suspected by Harry. The ones I tried today were 3 mm, I’ve ordered 1 mm ones in the hope that they are heavy enough to keep the negative straight and that they are thin enough to eliminate the problem. Tuesday/Wednesday I will update again. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/17 "2025-01-27T17:30:31Z")
I’m sure that your efforts will be very useful for other users wanting to use glass etc. on that scanner. Wondering how thick the acrylic is on the Fluid Mount accessory, though just a single layer of course. Have you ever tried wet mounting with that? ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/18 "2025-01-27T17:39:24Z")
I see that there is a in fact a public FB forum for your scanner and its predecessors, might be worth looking there. Perhaps you’re allergic to FB, I know I am, but I’ve had to make an exception for a couple of ‘scanning’ forums. > **[Log into Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/groups/epsonv850v800v750v700users)** > > Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know. ---
**Author:** ![Harry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Harry](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Harry)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/19 "2025-01-27T18:07:09Z")
…actually quitre a lot of good stuff on there for anyone with one of those Epson Vxxx scanners, try searching for ‘ANR’ perhaps. Haven’t seen anything about bands though but they all tend to use a single piece of glass. It’s important to find the correct focus height for your own personal scanner though, either for the surface setting or the holder one, it seems that they can vary a lot. Actually searching that forum for ‘banding’ would suggest that it’s a fairly common problem. A fix would seem to be putting a slight diffusion over the LED light source inside the machine but you’d have to read the actual detail carefully of course. Not everything you read in forums is actually true of course. ---
**Author:** ![Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Red](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/u/Red)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795/20 "2025-01-27T18:27:04Z")
Unfortunately I’ve been out form FB for about 10 years 😃 . I would rather keep the banding then return haha. Just kidding. The led diffusion thing is interesting. Don’t get how can they achieve to keep the negative flat with just a single glass, tape it down? I’ve alrady calibrated my ideal hight and is above 4 mm from the glass so I’ve put little small silicon legs to the sheet that goes in contact with the scanner, not so shabby as a solution if it just could keep those damn bands from happening. Harry could you screenshot the diffusion thing? Can’t believe I need to sign to FB again just to scan decently 😂. [Next page](https://forums.negativelabpro.com/t/vertical-alternated-darker-bands-on-120-film-with-epson-v850-staircase-effect/8795.md?page=2)