I’ve been using Lightroom and Negative Lab Pro for less than 2 years. Only scratching the surface of these tools. The details panel has become the primary subject of my recent reading.
Raw workflow “experts” recommend a three-step sharpening process. Input, Creative, and Output sharpening. NLP guide has a section on Sharpening and Noise reduction in which it states “This “input sharpening” is especially necessary when working with DSLR scanning. The process of converting the digital camera’s sensor data into pixels usually leaves some softness.” Adobe has chosen default settings of amount 40, radius 1.0, detail 25, and masking 0. Obviously this needs adjustment depending on many factors. Very little discussion I found is about camera scanning film just about capturing digital images in general.
From my reading recommended input sharpening should be deconvolution sharpening of the entire image. This is easily done by setting detail to 100, radius to 0.5, mask to 0, and adjusting the amount sparingly.
My experimentation with deconvolution sharpening has indicated that an amount greater than 20 to 25 really accentuates the film grain for my negatives. I’m scanning ISO 400 film.
Lightroom Classic 14.4 and NLP v3.1.1 on Window 10 system
Camera & Lens: Nikon D850 with AF Micro Nikon 60mm f2.8
Holder & Light: Nikon ES-2 film digitizing adapter. Nikon Speedlight SB-800 with SC-29 cord
When camera scanning film are you doing input deconvolution sharpening?
If you do, what are typical settings?
Do you use a different approach to input sharpening?
What is your approach?
Do you use the mask setting to limit input sharpening rather than the entire image?
Comments to help enlighten me on detail panel settings and sharpening when camera scanning film are appreciated, Thanks in advance.
i’m really a newbie when it comes to the specific settings of camera scanning and conversion, so i’m very interested in the answers to your questions of other members of this forum. My approach for now is what i learned from Kyle McDougall’s video
He turns sharpening off before conversion with NLP, and on after.
Complete newbie with NLP and DSLR scanning. Only done a few images so far and playing with them in Lightroom. What I am noticing is that my capture with the Nikon D850, 60mm Micro lens and ES-2 adapter is probably capturing the grain on the film as much as detail in the photo.
In Lightroom additional Masking/Luminence (Noise reduction)/Sharpening/ is having little effect on the image.
So- I’d appreciate some tips as well on Initial capture and NLP settings to have a good base image to start from.
At the moment working on B&W negs. Mostly going to be Tri-X and Ilford HP-5, often at 800iso.
I also realize that they final images mostly won’t be pixel peeped at 100% or if printed the ink on paper will loose much of that base grain or noise. I am Also realizing that LR Masking & selections don’t do much either
Just trying to get a handle on best practices working with DSLR scans vs. a digital capture in LR. Very different beast…
I think that you’ve more or less answered this one yourself. You probably need to be looking at this question in relation to some kind of final output, just as sharpening should always be according to the final output. If you are more or less filling the 45MP frame with your B&W 400 & 800 iso negatives then in pixel terms that’s like using a 5800 ppi film scanner. Most dedicated film scanners for 35mm are around the 4000 ppi mark and with one of those a 35mm frame would give you only 21.5 MP. I say ‘only’ but many would say that is enough for 35mm for most purposes, certainly 24MP is often cited. Beyond that then you are in the realms of very large prints viewed at close range where the actual way the grain is resolved becomes important.
Another way of (literally) looking at it is what you have to compare it with, have you had scans of any of your negatives done in any other way perhaps?
Are you using direct flash with your ES-2? If so that can be a little unforgiving, you could try a diffuse light source instead to see if that makes a difference.
I’ve got a Nikon cool scan 4000 that in the late 90s and early part of the 2000s I used extensively but haven’t used it in a long time. Probably can’t even use it with my current computer although I could still hook it up to my old one, but the time involved individual negative scanning that way prohibitive. That’s why I got the ES-2. Seems like a much faster process and I was thinking was going to be higher quality scans.
I also used to use my flatbed scanner mostly for 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 or 6 x 17 negs and transparencies.
Was using VueScan software for that and usually got pretty good results. But the resolution wasn’t so high that I was so aware of the actual film grain.
For my preliminary tests the other day I was using an iPad with a white screen with camera on a tripod. Been reading up on best practices for that and have ordered a piece of light box quality translucent plexiglass to hold a half inch above the iPad for better diffusion.
At some point, I may experiment with building something to use with strobe. I’ve got numerous different strobes. I could use such as on camera, flash heads, Godox AD360s. and a strobe would give me superior color over the iPad that might be the way to go.
For the moment, I’m just going to be doing 35 mm so the ES – 2 is a good solution but if I want to do my 6 x 17 images, I will have to build something a little more flexible.
I think they should definitely be better with your D850 & 60mm Micro-Nikkor. A comparison would be good though, maybe you’ve got some scans from the Coolscan 4000 that you could camera ‘scan’ again?
On a related note I used to print my own 16" x 12" colour prints from 35mm colour negative in the darkroom, they were commercial orders of some work that I used to do. I kept a few and so scanned a few of those negatives and tried printing to the same size on my Epson 4000. They did seem to be more ‘granular’ than the chemical (diffuse) colour enlarger prints but it’s difficult to be anything other than subjective about the differences. I’ll have another look at them.
Continuing my research. From my preliminary experiments on just a few black-and-white negatives. I was not happy with how grainy and granular they looked. And now I know why. Apparently 24 megapixels is a much better resolution to use for 35 mm negatives especially high speed black-and-white then a 47 or 50 megapixel scan.
I’m actually getting TOO much detail , and that may have to do with the diffusion on my light source also. I have now picked up an extra diffusion panel. But I have to compare side-by-side with my Z6lll which is 24 megapixels compared to the D850 which is 47 pixels.
But this guy has done that work for me and validates that information
Now, if I get to the point where I’m going to be playing with my 6 x 17 transparency and legs, D850 will be beneficial for that
I haven’t looked at the YT video yet but bear in mind that you don’t have to fill the frame with your 35mm frame and D850 whereas you do need to with your Z6II. The 60mm Micro-Nikkor is a very good lens and of course will go to 1:1 but it isn’t optimised for 1:1 so will perform better, or at least is likely to, at lesser magnification. For example a friend was using a Tamron 90mm on a 36MP D810 but was leaving space around it to end up with 24MP, excellent results.
In fact this is more or less what Magnum seem to be doing in this video but with a much larger budget. They use a Fuji 120mm GF Macro but copy the whole slide including the mount and a little more (with carefully balanced top and transmissive lighting). I roughly calculate that leaves them with about 22MP for the image area from their 100MP GFX sensor..
What do you mean about the 60mm Mico isn’t Optimized for 1:1?
And using the ES-2 adapter on the lens the image will pretty much fill the frame. Not sure I have any choice in that. But I’ve barely had a chance to use it yet
Sorry, I forgot that you were using the ES-2 but you can still try moving the film holder further from the lens with more extension, an extra ring maybe.
1:1 is at the extreme end of the magnification of that lens, it also focuses to infinity of course. The performance at the corners with less magnification is likely to improve, it does with my 55mm Micro- Nikkor f2.8.
Bottom line though would be if you are happy with the Z6 results then go with that.
Mirrorless is very beguiling, I went back to my Canon 5D Mk2 for some ‘full frame’ lens tests recently, hated it really, I was all fingers and thumbs. Generally I uses a 24MP Fuji X-T2, it just makes it all so easy.
The irony here is that I sold my old 55mm (that I’d had for more than 20 yrs…) couple of years ago thinking that if I ever wanted to do film copying that I needed to get a 60 mm which the ES 2 was supposedly designed specifically for.
Not realizing that it was designed for it to completely fill the frame at 60 mm and had I not sold it to get the 60, I would be fine with the 55 and allowing for a little bit of a crop.
Oh well. I’ll be stopping down anyway. But if not happy with corner performance I will try either an additional or a slightly longer extension ring so I could use the D850 and then just crop in some still having plenty of resolution.
