Confused about profiles and Read Metadata from Files

Image Editing Help
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I’m running Negative Lab Pro v3 in Adobe Lightroom Classic 15.3.1 (my first time using an Adobe product beyond Acrobat), on a sluggish Windows 10 laptop. I’m scanning 45-year-old Kodacolor 35 mm negatives with a Plustek OpticFilm 8100 using Silverfast SE 9 to create .dng files.

I have 120 rolls to scan and not much time or expertise, so I’m trying to get a batch process down. I’m very confused by Profile, the guides don’t explain it clearly. My TLDR is: during NLP’s [Convert NN Negatives], the images’ profile shown in Develop > Basic > Profile changes again, to “Negative Lab v2.3 - Frontier”, So do I need to assign the profile before NLP? Do I need to run the slow File > Plugin-Extras > Update Vuescan/Sliverfast DNGs then Metadata > Read Metadata from Files steps?

Here are more details about my confusion. I hope the Guides can be improved.

Getting Started - Basics says “ensure that the ‘Negative Lab v2.1’ raw profile is available”. But it doesn’t say where to look. I think I’m supposed to look at right side > Develop > Basic > Profile > click the drop-down > Browse… , which lists lots of “Negative Lab” profiles including “Negative Lab v2.1”. I wasn’t sure if “Negative Lab” is the most recent or the original.

The guide goes on to say ‘the profile should show “Negative Lab v2.1”’. But it doesn’t; when I first import negative images from SilverFast, Develop > Basic > Profile shows “Embedded” for all of them.

When I run ‘File > Plugin-Extras > Update Vuescan/Silverfast DNGs.’, it takes a while and I get an alert "To sync this update, click ‘Metadata > Read Metadata From File’. You should then be able to select the ‘Negative Lab’ camera profile’. (DOC BUG: the menu item is actually ‘Read Metadata from Files’.) This is more more confusion whether “Negative Lab” or “Negative Lab v2.1” is the profile to use.

But this alert is confusing. After the update is over, Develop > Basic > Profile shows “Negative Lab v2.3” for every negative image. So I don’t need to select anything, it’s done for me. (DOC BUG: I guess “Negative Lab v2.3” is actually the latest profile, even though I’m running Negative Lab Pro v3.)

Then when I finally run NLP and choose [Convert NN]Negatives] and the magic happens, the profile shown in Develop > Basic > Profile for all of them changes again, to Negative Lab v2.3 - Frontier. So did I really need to perform the slow File > Plugin-Extras > Update Vuescan/Sliverfast DNGs then Metadata > Read Metadata From File step? The only thing Read Metadata from Files seems to do is set the Profile, and then NLP’s [Convert NN Negatives] changes it.

(Also the Quick Start Guide Windows PDF says when you open NLP ‘The “Profile” should change to “Negative Lab …”.’ I’m not sure that happened, I think it changed after I clicked [Convert NN Negatives].)

Thanks. It really helps to have good explanations for this so we can use the tool efficiently in batch mode.

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The version number of each profile reflects the version of NLP that introduced the new profiles. Any version of NLP automatically engages the newest suitable profile.

NLP and its user guide aren’t necessarily updated at the same time and therefore, confusions can occur, e.g. with version numbers.

Other than that, NLP does a good job for me and I’m fairly sure that it will do it for you too.

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I struggled initially with a few rolls when I started using NLP. It is a learning process, and may take time .Learning Lightroom at the same time adds to the curve.
You said “I have 120 rolls to scan and not much time or expertise” . That was me as well. If you can find a way to slow it down ,the flow will come to you and the process will be enjoyable instead of a task to get through . I did, and really enjoy the results. Best of luck to you !

1 Like
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Digitizer is correct that NLP pulls-up the most recent conversion profile it has available, and it is true, at least up to the last time I used it come months ago, that even though NLP is into version 3, the latest NLP profile is 2.3. I recommend you stick with that profile because it is tuned to provide the closest colour renditions the process can. provide.

“Frontier” is a make-believe laboratory processing choice you can make and retain as the default. There are several other laboratory processing styles it mimics, such as Pakon and Crystal, and then there is Natural. This choice is meant to provide the laboratory look you prefer, hangover from the film era. Frankly I’m not looking for any historical film lab processing look so I just use Natural. But sometimes it’s nice playing between those options to see what starting point they deliver for particular photos.

Now, a question for you: SilverFast SE9 includes their “Negafix” function and it has a large number of profiles for various film types including for various vintages of Kodacolor. So I’m wondering why you aren’t doing the negative to positive conversion from right within SilverFast as part of your scanning process. Have you tried it? Scan them as negative to positive in TIFF output format from within SilverFast, export them to your hard drive, import them to Lightroom (a process that can automated using Lightroom’s “Watched Folder” facility), and then continue editing them in Lightroom. In this way you bypass an stage NLP altogether because you already have converted as they are scanned from within SilverFast. The SE version of SilverFast has the basic Negafix functionality. It lacks the more refined adjustment features of the AI, AI Studio versions. If you find the quality of the conversions you can derive from SilverFast SE is not good enough, then yes, scan them in your Plustek as “Positive” (so they remain negative without conversion) and go the extra step of doing the conversion in NLP.

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Yes, I started with SilverFast’s “Negafix” and the quality was pretty bad, and Claude AI hallucinated that NLP would give better results. It certainly seems to, although I had never used any of {PlusTek OpticFilm 8100, SilverFast, Lightroom Classic, and NLP} before.

Thanks for the explanation of profiles.

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With all due respect, if you didn’t know about the profiles before it means you haven’t given Negafix a proper tryout and may substantially improve its outcomes by experimenting. There are some 130 of them for a large range of film brands, types and ISO speeds. Anyhow, if you are getting good results from NLP now, no need to go that route.

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With all due respect, if you didn’t know about the profiles before it means you haven’t given Negafix a proper tryout

I did know about SilverFast Negafix profiles. There isn’t one for Kodacolor II 100/400 (“Kodak Safety film 5075”). Google’s AI Overview hallucinated that I should choose Kodak Gold 100 or Royal Kodak Gold II. I even downloaded the custom others.zip profile that someone created in 2013 (link to the comment in the archived SilverFast forum thread, the SilverFast forum URLs now return Status 403 Forbidden “blocked”); it’s unclear whether I successfully used that profile, but I assume these NLP forums are not the place for SilverFast discussions. The results that I achieved on my first few rolls with NLP seemed better than SilverFast with any of these three profiles, just as Claude AI hallucinated when it sent me down this Lightroom Classic + NLP route.

Are you saying I am likely to get better results than NLP from SilverFast SE 9 + Negafix after “a proper tryout”? It’s hard enough trying to master one workflow; comparing two as a n00b is unrealistic.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and comments. However, nobody has yet commented on whether two of the steps I’m performing are necessary in my situation. To repeat,

So do I need to assign the profile before [running] NLP? Do I need to run the slow File > Plugin-Extras > Update Vuescan/Silverfast DNGs then Metadata > Read Metadata from Files steps? … The only thing Read Metadata from Files seems to do is set the Profile, and then NLP’s [Convert NN Negatives] changes it.

I guess I’ll convert a negative .DNG with and without these steps and see if there are any differences in an exported image.

Cheers.

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Hi Skier, Firstly, I don’t see a problem discussing SilverFast profiles in an NLP forum. No harm comparing software types; after all, we are all seeking what gives us the best results from the available options.

That said, the original thought behind my opening question to you is simply this: NLP was designed primarily for processing negatives photographed with a camera, while SilverFast was designed for use with scanners which have different capture technology. You were kind of “cross-processing” trying to use NLP for a scanner-based capture process, hence my curiosity about why bother. OK, you’ve explained you turned to NLP because Negafix wasn’t satisfying you. My response to that is that Negafix, at least in the SilverFast AI Studio configuration, has tools that allow it to be fine-tuned from which it can be used successfully. But what do I mean by “successfully”. This is where some of these discussions go off the rails. When it comes to converting colour negatives there is no solution that gives “perfect” results out of the box. All of them need some kind of post-conversion editing adjustments. It’s only a matter of which makes it faster, easier, more satisfying. Each of these pieces of software has their strengths and limitations.

Finally, perhaps to answer your primary concern more directly, SilverFast SE may not necessarily give you the same editing capability as you can get from SilverFast AI Studio, but depending on the kind of scanner you are using, that upgrade would be more or less expensive. I think the advice you got from the AI dialog is broadly correct. In your circumstances, I think you are likely to have an easier flight path to satisfaction using NLP and Lightroom.